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For full features; Go to repaint/tuch up same color pricing??
alright so i just bought a 94 miata and it has some chips here and there
from rocks and the front bumper is sorta faded I'm just wondering what im
looking to get the car touched up and look nice. it would be in the same
color so the engin wouldn't have to be takin out and all that hard work
wouldn't have to be put into it.
thanks
jessetjames
jessetjames
reapints can run anywhere from under $200 at a Earl Sheib or Maaco type
place on up to a few thousand dollars at a high end shop using the best
materials.
Some of the price is on those materials (a high quality catalized urethane
base coat/clearcoat job can run over a grand just in materials at fleet
cost, while a typical synthetic enamel job can use a mere $50 in materials
bought in 55 gallon drums by the mentioned cheap shops), and a lot is based
on labor (if a paint shop is charging $200 for apaint job and $50-100 is in
materials, that simply leaves very little money to pay for labor and still
make a profit. How much care do you think an employee is going to take
working on your car for a hundred bucks or less?)
You CAN get good results at Maaco, if you do good prep work before hand.
Prep is almost all the labor cost in a high quality paint job (true, the
materials themselves are more expensive: Real urethanes rather than the
synthetic enamels with urethane catalysts that Maaco uses), so if you're
careful, you can get a good job for cheap with Maaco and your work. (You
may not go, but others reading this might, and this will help get the best
job possible).
A good shop will often have to go over the car anyway, so you won't save
too much by doing work yourself, unless you are confident enough in your
prep work just to have them spray over it... But there are still steps you
can take to save some labor and time.
Remove as much trim as is possible. Removing trim means 1) not having tape
lines, and 2) someone else isn't responsible for loss or damage. It also
means that the prep work can be done right under where the trim was, for a
higher quality finish job (and edges around trim is where jobs usually fall
down when economizing. Lack of sanding right next to trim can cause paint
to peel later). If you're changing color, also remove door panels and
carpet edge trim in the door jambs. Do a thourough job of cleaning the
jambs (even if you're not changing color. This keeps dirt from coming back
out into the new paint. A good shop will do it, but it's labor, and you can
save time there.) On the same lines, clean the engine compartment
thoroughly. Get a good degreaser/wax remover, and go over the whole car.
Especially the door jambs, as years of Armor All can accumulate and cause
problems (Armor All and the like are silicone sealants. Paint doesn't stick
to silicone, and usually has serious reaction probems to even a drop of the
stuff...).
If you are doing the engine compartment, degrease everything, and pull back
as much wiring as you can, or completely mask everything (an easy trick is
to use aluminum foil to wrap intricate bits...)
These are basics that can save the paint shop a bit of time and hassle. It
may not save much money, but the job will be better, which ends up the same
thing. If you want to go farther (or go to Maaco), you can do much of the
sanding yourself. On areas where no bodywork is necessary, get a sanding
block and 320 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper, of good quality (3M or Mirka
Gold). Carefully wet sand the body with the block (taking care around
edges, so as not to sand through) untill all trace of gloss is gone, and
you have a nice, even, dull finish, getting as close to the factory primer
level as you dare (remember, electrostatically applied, baked alkyd enamel
like the factory uses is the absolute best substrate for new paint there
is... bare metal requires serious chemicals to make it so that airborne
applied paint sticks and doesn't have corrosion problems later. And NO
"baked" paint afterward is truly baked like the factory paint is. For one,
when painting at the factory, there are no glass, trim, or interior parts
installed to be damaged by high temps.) Sand in linear motions, but
alternate directions to keep the sanding even and level. In the jambs (if
painting them) use the 320 by hand in as much as you can reach easily. Then
get 3M Scotch Brite pads (the red ones) and go after them again (the Scotch
Brite gets into all the crevasses regular sandpaper can't). Use the Scotch
Brite on the body crevasses that are hard to reach with sandpaper
(especially around edges of panels).
Any areas where bodywork is necessary (door dings, minor dents) need to be
hit quickly with 80 grit paper. Door dings need to be shown up so they can
be attended to (if you want, you can do the work yourself with a high
quality filler. I use USC's BaseCoat/ClearCoat, as it spreads smoothly in
very thin layers, is easy to work, extremely easy to sand, and doesn't
stain through the top coats. It is also light and durable (I had a customer
get hit in the same spot that I had done serious bodywork on and the filler
that was there not only didn't crack, it didn't separate from the body
surface)). If you are going to be doing the bodywork (say before going to
Maaco) try to always hammer and dolly out most of the dent, so the filler
is only a skim coat to fill the minor hammer ripples left. Filler is better
when thinner (anything under an eighth inch should last a lifetime). And
again, try NOT to remove factory paint if at all possible, because filler
sticks better to paint than to metal, and there is little chance of
trapping water or corrosion that way. Just scuff it well with 80 grit
(don't use 36 or 40 grit, as it tends to leave scratches that show up later
after the paint and primer shrink up...) before applying. Apply filler at
the exact level you need it at, so to reduce sanding later. Feather well to
the outside of the dent. Use a long board or longer block sander to make
sure it's even and level (waves are for beaches...).
You can get good primer results on bodywork or edges that have been sanded
to metal with Krylon sandable primer, believe it or not. Just spray a
couple light coats, let dry thoroughly (24 hours is best), sand lightly
with 320, then spray it lightly again to level it out. Major primer areas
should be shot with a catalyed urethane primer, like PPG K200 (or the
flexible version for urethane bumpers). Again, let cure completely (24
hours is best, even a couple days is good). Block sand wet with 320 before
taking it to the paint shop. A good trick to make sure the surface is level
is to kightly spray a spray can of color (like Krylon flat black) over the
primed areas, letting it dry, then hitting it with the sanding block. This
guide coat will show up imperfections that can be attended to, either by
more sanding, or more bodywork if necessary.
After all is completed, clean completely again with a wax and grease
remover.
I noticed I didn't say anything about masking and taping... ALWAYS use a
good masking tape. Cheap tape is no savings ever. 3M or Amerian Performance
automotive masking tape is all you want to use. If masking needs to be
done, take your time (this is why you remove the trim... so making perfect
edges isn't as critical, and there are more "natural" places to mask
to...)
After this, it's ready to paint.
If you do go to Maaco after this, get their catalyzed paint (otherwise it
will NEVER get repainted without completely stripping everything....), and
if you go metallic or pearl, definitely get the clear topcoats (clearcoat
is merely unpigmented paint, regardless of who does it). If you go solid
colors, clear isn't necessary. Just have them put an extra coat on it.
After you get it home, let it cure for a couple days to a week. Then, hit
it with 1000 grit wet sandpaper until all "orange peel" and dirt nibs are
gone (be very careful of edges. In fact, stay a quarter inch or so away
from the edges to start with). Hit it lightly after that with 1500 grit.
Then either a pro detailing shop OR even you can use rubbing compound and a
foam pad, and polish the paint. Top it off with Meguire's #9 on a foam
finishing pad for a deep gloss. But do NOT wax or treat your paint
otherwise for 90 days! Regardless of where it comes from. The paint needs
this time to cure properly, and waxing will inhibit that, and could
possibly damage the paint for the long term. (Top show car guys do it right
off, but top show cars never stay the same color for decades, so
longetivity isn't as important...). Do these steps right, and you'd be
surprised that a Maaco paint job can look considerably better than
factory... (of course, it's still cheapo synthetic enamel with urethane
catalyst, but if you're on a serious budget, it can still look like you
spent good money...)
ChrisV
Also, from another board, I was asked some questions regarding this and
answered..
As above, remove all trim if possible, and prep them separately (door
handles and mirrors). If the bumper strips are removeable, do so, and
refinish them separately. If not, prep as I indicated, get the main paint
done with them unmasked, then mask and refinish the strips (unless you want
them body color...). Any plastic parts to be painted need to be cleaned and
degreased as I described, then a special plastic primer (available from
Mortons or SEM at your local autobody/paint supply store) needs to be
applied about 10 minutes before actual painting. This keeps it from
peeling. You can also use a product from Morton alled Jamb-It or from SEM
alled Sand-Free as a way to open up the pores of the plastic and lock the
first fog coat of primer in place (also good for those areas that you
simply can't sand. But it's NOT a substitute for good prep otherwise.
Questions:
1) Do you know what MAACO does as far as prep? Should I assume their's is
weak and that I should do yours on top of buying there's? They do have
several classes of prep and paints and clear coats.
Minimal prep. And once you ask for "real" prep, the same $7/hr guys who
scuff the cars attempt to do real prep. They simply don't get paid enough
to take much time or do good work.
Again, clear coat is just paint with no pigment (and UV inhibitors). There
are cheap clears and quality clears, but they are the same as the paints.
Since Maaco uses cheap paints even in their top of the line jobs (unless a
particular shop contracts out with name brand paints, like PPG, DuPont,
etc), the only ones to use are their catalyzed urethanes.
2) I can't imagine MAACO sanding the whole car to a dull finish (price). Do
they have some kind of chemical treatment that's 1/2 as good as a sand job
and basically just aids in the base coat adhering? Is that adviseable?
Yes, they can use solvents like I described above. But really, the only
thing those are good for is in hard to sand areas, and then only sparingly.
They are not substitute for good prep, unless you like the 3D tearaway
look..
3) I bought a new front fascia for my car. How are those properly painted
and can MAACO deal with that without flaking in a year? My rear fascia
needs REpainting. What is done to prep that?
On flexible parts, you first need to clean and degrease them 9even and
especially new parts). Then the scotch brite pad I talked about before is
gone over thoroughly to scuff it up. Then use a fog coat of the Sand Free
to open the pores of the urethane, and a flexible urethane primer is
applied. When done properly, the primer is thus locked to the urethane.
Scuff the primer completely (after proper cure... again, I always give 24
hrs). Then the part is ready to apply paint. If using a urethane base
coat/clear coat paint system, the base coat goes on as normal, then the
clear gets a flexible additive added. IF using a single stage paint (no
clear) the flexible additive is put directly into the color (and use the
same paint as for the rest of the car. the flex additive won't negatively
affect the paint on the metal bits...)
Prep is the same on the rear bumper, just as on the rest of the car.
Finishing is done just like the front bumper described above.
4) I'd like my door bump trim strips to be painted body color. What kind of
prepping is involved in that? I bought some spray stuff that supposedly
aids in paint adherence to plastic pieces. Is that good? When I talked to
MAACO, they seemed hesitant about guaranteeing painting those plastic
pieces.
Prep is the same as desribed for a new urethane bumper, above. The spray
you have may work, though usually that is for ABS plastics... and no, Maaco
doesn't like to guarantee anything outside their normal scuff and shoot
process.
5) I've talked to (2) body shops and they told me, "You don't want us to do
it kid. You don't have the money. Go to MAACO." Evidently body shops are
busy enough not to need paint business alone and that the labor in the dent
repair would kill me. Also, there are no places that just paints
primarily... other than MAACO. Should I not even pursue body shops given my
price limit?
Mainstream bodyshops are like that. They DO have too much work usually just
in dent repair (where 90% of income is labor, and profitable). Complete
paint jobs simply don't profit like crash work on small panels. I know of
shops that simply won't DO completes. But there are also smaller shops (and
the ocasional hobbyist) that you can go to, with the caveat: look at their
other work and talk to other people who have had work done by them. Some
are definitely shady, some are total flakes. Some are craftsmen. Some are
guys like you and me, but doing this on the side with regular jobs and
lives taking up most of their time, so the work might take longer, but come
out better.
I've seen work out of carports and back yards rival top shops, and usually
exceed factory or crash repair shops. I've also seen serious hack work by
guys who have been at it for years. The only way to find out is talk to
satisfied customers. Always be involved in the process. I actually hated it
when people dropped of their cars and say "call me when it's done." In
non-crash repair and custom work, constant contact is important. And in the
case of a place like Maaco, mandatory to getting a good job. If you know
what you're looking at and how to achieve it, you can get good enough work
on a budget.
ChrisV
